For years we’ve been hearing the cries of Porsche purists that various refitting firms, usually Singer Vehicle Design and Rauh-Welt, are going to dry up the world’s supply of 964-generation 911s. Until recently, we never thought that either of them would reach more than ten or 15 cars per year, but both Singer and RWB have dramatically increased production.
Along with that increased production has come an increase in pricing for road going 964s. Are they related? In the last year it seems the price for a decent 964 Carrera 2 has increased by at least 50%. At one point not long ago, a 964 was the last properly affordable way to get an air-cooled 911, generally trading hands below the $40,000 mark. We spoke to a friend who purchased what he says was ‘the last Carrera 2 under 40K’ just 16-months ago. As it stands today, you’re highly unlikely to find a good example for less than $60,000. Less desirable models like Cabriolets and early Carrera 4s are just now cresting $40,000, whereas they used to be below the $30,000 mark.
Instagram post shows how many 964s are getting consumed
Thanks to a now-deleted Instagram post from the Russell Built Fabrication account (a sub-contractor to Singer Vehicle Design), we have a better idea of Singer’s waiting list. If they’ve thus far built a few dozen cars for worldwide consumption, they’re ramping up to build a whole lot more. We know that Singer has recently relocated to a larger facility, and this stack of at least 40+ Porsches waiting in the wings for their day to shine proves just how much demand there is for such a car. Singer and their customers certainly aren’t going to be looking for Porsches with salvage titles, but in our opinion they probably don’t need to be looking for the best of the best cars either; they replace basically everything. If Singer, or their customers, are buying up all of the entry-level 964 that come up for sale, then all that’s left are the collector-grade models, which then drives up the average market asking price. It’s simple supply and demand.
Porsche data shows that the company built quite a lot of 964s from 1990 to 1993, basically 30,000 standard-body coupes with about 3/5ths of those being Carrera 2s. We can’t find any split on which countries those 964s were shipped to, but we know that America was in the grips of the early 1990s recession at the time, and did not buy Porsches with nearly the same vigor as the prior decade. Some estimates claim only about ten percent of production was shipped to the US, making 964s thin on the ground. If you agree with those numbers and Singer or their customers have purchased a total of 150 964s, then combined they’ve removed around 5% of the US market 964s from the buying market, permanently.
What does this mean?
Well, if you already own a 964 it’s a great thing, as the value of your Porsche is finally catching up with how great it is. If you were hoping to get in on the 964 wave, your last best hope is a properly cared for Cabrio (which is not a bad option, by the way, we love cabriolets).
We’ve been convinced of Singer’s affect on the market now for some time. That doesn’t mean, however, that we would discourage anyone from commissioning themselves a Singer, because they’re phenomenally well constructed and extremely cool cars. Just make sure you’re leaving the Mint, Maritime, Rubystone, and Cobalt cars alone!
[Top photo: Singer Vehicle Design Facebook Page. Second photo: @russellbuiltfabrication on Instagram.]
View Comments (12)
Does Singer modify cabrios ? If yes I would like to see a pic; if not do you know why not ?
P.S. I have a 1991 964 Cabrio although I don’t live in North America
No cabs yet that we're aware of. They have done a targa though. http://flatsixes.wpengine.com/cars/tuned-porsches/singer-911-targa/
Don't forget that Ruf is in the market for 964s, too. I know one agent in Canada who will be happy to ship your 964 to Ruf. Probably there is an agent(s) in the USA, also.
Nice plug attempt
Nah. You miss the point. All I'm saying is that not only Singer wants 964s. That's all.
It has always been a supply vs demand market. Hey they are working a nich a market and when it becomes too tight, a new market will replace it. At $500,000 , that is a very exclusive platform. When was the last time you saw a "Singer" at Walmart. The mere mortals will always be ohh and aweing. OI don'thave a Porsche yet, but I will.
When did having 40+ 964's equate to a drying up the worlds supply in a market where some 18,000+ C2 cars were built? Just goes to show you how naive some people can be and how easy it is for people to over pay for a used car.
For starters most published numbers are inaccurate and include cars that don't exist. There were an additional 720 coupes counted that were never built and many cars were double counted due to an unknown program where Vin numbers were changed from one model year to the next. If the car carries code 718 it will have a Vin number for that year but carry an engine from the previous year and most of these were double counted.
The problem is that long before Singer came along so many of these cars were cut up for parts, crashed, & heavily modified for track use. I know of hundreds and would guess it is more like thousands were already gone before the craze already began. The 3.6 L 964 engine is the engine of choice to install into older 911's & 914's. There were only some 5100 Coupes imported to the US and that includes all C2's C4's coupes both manual and tips to both the US and Canada. I have been following the market for over 15 years and I would estimate less than half the 964 coupes still exist in the US and only a small % are cars worth buying. The majority have hidden issues, accident damage, inaccurate mileage and so many other issues.
The cars I have seen sold to become Singers are not the cars in need of help but sadly many are nicer examples. These are some of the rarest air-cooled 911's long before the Singer was imagined and at the rate they are being chopped up, back dated, RWB or whatever we will see this number drop below a thousand in the US before we know it if were not careful.
As the lucky owner of a Singer and a follower of the brand from the creation of Song1 , the original Singer , I can tell you that they have turned down some donor cars that were too nice to be converted . Their ideal donor car is a high mileage 964 with everything mechanical or cosmetic , including the interior , worn out . The tub has to be straight and not rusted but the rest of the car can be horrible . The folks at Singer are enthusiasts and preservationists first , converters last .
It makes me happy to hear that they won't cannibalize the really nice cars. Yet!!!
Clearly they appreciate the platform otherwise they would not have chosen it to build their cars. The problem is the majority of what is remaining for sale are cars that I would consider sub par and would not qualify for a Singer. What I consider passable 964's are now in the $50,000+ range needing extensive work. Finding any accident, rust free coupe is nearly an impossibility today. So unless you're willing to do a complete restoration these get expensive for the average enthusiast. Eventually only two types of cars will remain. The true garage queens or the damaged goods. Unfortunately the RWB and other backdates are quickly devouring the good cars that Singer might pass on. The inevitable is coming and unless they tap into the ROW market which is spread out over the globe the US supply will dry up much more quickly than most realize. I doubt they will start to section cars to make a good tub so the good cars will be the only ones left to choose from. What will happen then?
It would be nice to see them offer a version of the car that retains the 964 looks (possibly a 3.8RS look) but offers their modernization and upgrades. After all at the end of the day The
current Singer's are updated and modernized trailing arm, air-cooled 964's irrespective of how they look or what badge they wear. Not much different than what the enthusiasts have been doing to these for decades at a far lower budget.
As an owner of a 1991 C2, you guys are making me smile- a lot!! It is a great car, will not be shipped to Singer or anywhere else- but I do admit I went for the 3.8 liter upgrade. Expensive, but very fun. The law of supply and demand is a wonderful thing.
The best thing that Porsche could do is a barebone reissue of the 964. A reasonable price, please! They would sell all of them in a blink!